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Say No to Devals Bailout
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anonohouse
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:40 am GMT    Post subject: Re: be subjective Reply with quote

barbarbar wrote:
Let say this stupid move was unstopable, then 1000 families got helped. What about the rest?


If the government not spend this 200 mil., more forecloures, which will lead to more gun shooting in Boston area, since Master Yoda said: forecloures leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering(shooting)... More crime will lead to further downturn of the housing market.

The question is, the 200 mil. might lower the future crime rate in Boston. But in what degree is totally unknown.


Oh, so Yoda supports a housing bailout? Is Mr. Yoda a subprime lender? Because those are the only people this action will benefit. Sheesh.
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Dorchester grandma
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:03 pm GMT    Post subject: government meddling Reply with quote

jbw writes
Quote:
The bail out will probably temper the market correction and homes would still be unaffordable.


This really does make sense. Rents may be lower than mortgage payments however they are still sky high. A lot of Dorchester landlords advertise SECTION 8 WELCOME! They can get $1700 per mo from the government for a (deleaded) triple decker apt. The rental market would probably correct itself too if landlords had to find tenants who would be willing or able to pay $1700 to live in Dorchester. So government meddling with the rental market keeps rents unreasonable high as well. This makes it tough for people who don't have a section 8 certificate and have to pay as much as 3/4 of their income for rent.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:43 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this gets to the whole "leader/protector" and "follower ship" mentalities.

In a society we have leaders and followers, and they think differently. Most have a percentage of each and step forward in areas where they trust their judgment and abilities...

We need to promote good leadership and good follower ship and look at issues through both prisms.

Leadership is about not having a range and basis of fundamentals to operate from. No responsible organization had a strong set of today's fundamentals. Nobody had confidence in any current basis of fundamentals to benchmark from. That led people to two choices, to take the time and become an expert, or to trust what others told them. Others who weren't dialed in to the situation would give them advice that might have applied to the 1980's and not today. Leadership is about getting out in front of a problem and seeing something before it happens. Leadership is also about having information and misleading those or taking advantage of a situation. Leadership is about professionalism, it is about trusting that if a State gives someone a license that they have passed some sort of ordeal and test and are rated to function within an accepted range of practice in a manner that wouldn't be detrimental to society as a whole; otherwise, why would a State require you have licenses to practice? Leadership is about allowing this risk to be spread out and just collateral damage that is so nominal from a lender's perspective that it provides no material deterrent from unprofessional conduct.

Follower ship is about what degree of responsibility one needs to take as an individual and what should we trust from licensed professionals. To what degree is "buyer beware" applicable? How much range do people have to mislead; where does misleading become lying? It's about the person who spills hot coffee on their lap and sues MacDonald’s. There is a burden of responsibility for followers.

If you benchmark leadership and follower ship against the "Golden Rule" - "Treat others the way you would want to be treated", and at Kohlberg's highest state of Moral Development "If everybody acted this way, what type of world would it be?", I think that you'd find points on either side of the leadership/follower ship equation. The solution should aim at leadership and follower ship. If we allow people to be stupid, we will not be able to function as a society, people wouldn't want to take a responsible leadership role because of the risk. However, you will find that where you have a lot of problems in a society, you'll also find that you have an industry with a lot of wealth and influence that doesn't want to be bound with responsibility or accountability.

It is also disgusting that our current fox guarding the hen house came from this industry. I wonder if he is going through the motions. This is man-up time for Deval. Many say he is a lightweight, we'll see. My guess is that he'll take a political temperature reading and do what is politically expedient, so keeping the heat on is important for our society in this case.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:31 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another challenge for Republicans: If you don't like judges that legislate from the bench, why don't legislators legislate from the legislature? If injustice is taking place in a society; where does the buck stop? If the legislature doesn't prove a deterrent for immoral behavior, does the Judicial Branch play no role? We have a Judicial Branch to establish Justice. I'm talking about people taking lawsuits and having judges provide penalties to act as a deterrent. Legislators wait for a brick to land on enough people's heads before they act. What is the Judicial Branch supposed to do if people keep coming into their courtrooms with heads dented in by bricks landing on them? Republicans talk about the "rule of law" and what would happen if our society wasn't a republic or a society that was governed by laws. Republicans choose sides on what laws should be enforced and what laws should be in place. Illegal immigrants are evil, but polluters are good-old-boys. Republicans are bound to the wealthy donors and they do everything they can to allow the rich to tread on the weak. The Democrats are just pathetic, weak and impotent. If Deval is supposed to be a man of the people, why did he help the predatory lending company that he was on the leadership Board? Why do Democrats tend to roll out lightweight pretty-boys? Why did the family of Milena del Valle (the woman who was crushed by the tunnel ceiling) have to go through that ordeal in court? Republicans: Where was the rule of law when that stupid detail was being built? Who were the individuals (licensed professionals) that stamped the drawings? Are those individuals still licensed to practice in our State? Why didn't our State aggressively obtain the proper documentations from these companies’ offices? Why did we wait for these companies lawyers to prepare packages for our State to review? Why didn't we kick the doors in and get it ourselves? Oh, wait, those companies were big donors to the Republicans. Don't give me that b.s. that the Judicial Branch legislates from the Bench. Again, we have a Judicial Branch to establish Justice. If the legislature is constantly behind on creating the framework for justice to thrive, more pucks will be shot at the goalie (the Judicial Branch). I guess I have to appeal to Republicans because Democrats can't even fight the battles for the people that they claim to represent.
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Bubba
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:00 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everybody always talks about the predatory lenders. But what about the predatory borrowers?

The borrowers took on debt that they knew or should have known that they couldn't repay. They lied on their applications. They did all this with the intention and effect of gouging other home buyers, pricing them out of the market or forcing them to pay inflated prices.

Please do not reward the predatory borrowers. They deserve what they're getting.
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:17 am GMT    Post subject: Here we go....bailout Reply with quote

http://www.boston.com/business/personalfinance/articles/2007/07/11/state_to_refinance_troubled_mortgages/
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Hank



Joined: 27 Apr 2007
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:25 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

That for the update on that Guest.
Now I'm really depressed, since it just goes to show that the government is only interested in Bread and Circuses- placating the masses, and not fostering responsibility.

*grumble*
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responsiblesaver
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:45 pm GMT    Post subject: Time for a protest in MA ? Reply with quote

"Such bailout programs have drawn criticism from some economists who contend such assistance efforts let overly aggressive lenders or overextended borrowers off the hook."

Yes, at the expense of responsible MA taxpayers who rent, save, and refused to overextend themselves to buy an overvalued house. This action also prevents the market from correcting at a natural pace and will keep house prices overvalued for a longer time.

Is it time for a protest to voice our concerns regarding this bailout?
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JCK



Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 559

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

There really should need to be a showing of deceptive intent on the part of the loan provider for buyers to take advantage of these programs. I have sympathy for buyers where the loan officers made up income figures unbeknown to the buyer, or used other shady/dishonest tactics (e.g., taking advantage of people with limited English language skills) to approve the buyer for a mortgage they could not afford.

I, however, have much less sympathy for those who simply bit off more than they could chew, and "should have known" better.

If the goal is to protect buyers from predatory lending, then it only makes sense to limit the program to people who were victims of such schemes!
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RTMis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:01 pm GMT    Post subject: Duh Reply with quote

...and then the stupid, poor and ultra-rich were thus pampered again while the idiot middle class stood by and was raped while watching their lives get run over by an SUV in perfect High-Definition.

Thanks to all for your blank stares
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:27 am GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the faith on this one; Massachusetts is socially progressive but fiscally conservative which is why we have had Republican Governors for so long until they got too cozy with the Big Dig contractors and Mitt started becoming a no-show Governor who was making fun of the State that elected him. If Deval was talking anything like this before the election there would be no way he’d be in office. He just smiled and was vague and everyone projected nice things about him without really taking the time to ask questions and force him to finish the sentence “Together we can”.
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Letters to Editor
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:43 am GMT    Post subject: Copy and Distribute Below to Media Reply with quote

Please feel free to cut and paste and send letter below to your local newspaper....let's fight back.


Dear Editor,

Governor Deval's $250 million public bailout fund to help delinquent borrowers of subprime mortgages is a slap in the face of every responsible Massachusetts taxpayer. Governor Deval expects taxpayers who responsibly avoided buying houses they could not afford to now contribute their hard earned taxpayer dollars to subsidize subprime home buyers. Would we the taxpayers have gotten a portion of any home appreciation had the value of these subprime home buyers' homes kept rising? Governor Deval seems to be fine with laws that privatize profit while requiring the public to absorb any losses. No Governor Deval, reward without risk is not the American way.

Now if these home buyers were misled by subprime lenders and others they interacted with while purchasing their homes and securing financing, then it would seem that some form of civil action is possible. How about a class action suit against the subprime lenders instead of a public tax payer bailout. It would seem that such action is the most fair for all involved.

If Governor Deval's $250 million unethical bailout goes forward, then we responsible taxpayers must hold the good Governor accountable come re-election time. It's time we take back our state and our country from irresponsible leaders who refuse to take fiscally responsible actions to right our ship.

Signed
A Responsible Massachusetts Taxpayer
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:34 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an awesome opportunity to ask Deval Patrick why he supports Casinos.

If poor people decide to make a foolish bet and they lose, will they get a "Do-over".

I'm sorry mister dealer, I think I made a mistake on that last hand, could I get a do-over? Wait, hold on, I don't have the cash to cover that bet, perhaps I can get the Governor to use the funds paid in by tax payers.

Where was the NAACP when all of this was going on? Did they have any program to warn people in advance what the fundamentals were? What's the NAACP's position on Deval's phone call to help out his friends at Ameriquest? What is the NAACP's position on Casinos? We're all in this together: black, white, whatever; if your money was green they wanted it and it seems that blacks weren't only the victims in this case.

http://mortgage-home-loan-bank-fraud.com/articles/Brokerage.htm
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BK- former Owner
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:46 pm GMT    Post subject: Why does Deval Patrick like Casinos???? Reply with quote

Why does Governor Deval Patrick like Casinos.........future Campaign Contributors for his future Vice Presidential or perhaps Presidential run.
His interests and decision demonstrate that he is soley interested in creating 'Headlines that get him National exposure" and bury his Past as a Board Member for Ameriquest.

All his decision will focus on creating National visibility for himself and taking care of folks who might be potential Big Money Donors in the Future.
He doesn't care what happens to Massachusetts or its Citizens - Way to go to Massachusetts for electing this guy.

Just my opinion.
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john p



Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 1820

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:23 pm GMT    Post subject: Reply with quote

I currently agree with your opinion but hope that Deval does step up and show political courage.

What annoys me about the NAACP is that they are color blind. Deval was on the Board of one of the predatory lenders. I never bought that "poor kid from the South Side" bit; if he honestly cared about struggling poor people what was he doing taking that money from Ameriquest.

I don't believe this yet, but in the back of my mind, all I keep thinking is that Deval moved up the ladder because he was a "token". What makes someone a "token" in my mind is the willingness of that "token" to sell out his own. By being on the side of Ameriquest, I think Deval sold out all of us. Just like he signed the letter to ask for the release of the grandmother rapist, he put his name behind an organization that preyed on the weak.
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